Since nothing Taylor Swift ever does is small, her two-hour conversation with boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother Jason Kelce on their “New Heights” podcast is a watershed moment for a media format that has already outlived the device it was named for.
By Thursday afternoon, Wednesday night’s talk had already been seen more than 11.7 million times on YouTube. But that’s only a fraction of its circulation — clips distributed on Instagram, TikTok, X and elsewhere have received more than 400 million views, and the episode was also available for streaming on audio platforms.
Swift, who infrequently gives interviews to journalists, revealed key information about her upcoming album, “The Life of a Showgirl,” and talked about her relationships with Travis Kelce and her family, and her joy of gaining full control of her past work — a yearslong quest.
It was a revelation for fans with whom she’s primarily communicated through her music and social media Easter eggs, a treasure hunt of clues about what she’s doing professionally.
“We have not heard Taylor speak in like a long-form interview like that in about five years,” Alex Antonides, a superfan from Dallas, told The Associated Press. “She’s never been in that comfortable of a situation, either. It’s always been like more professional, like a professional interviewer asking her questions. And then this is like with her boyfriend and his brother. So that was … an environment we’ve truly never seen her in before.”
Celebrities like a friendly face for public talks
Swift cemented a trend that’s been seen in recent years among entertainers, sports figures and politicians who seek to deliver particular messages. A visit to friendly faces for a long-form conversation beats questions from nosy, prying journalists. In this case, Swift and Travis Kelce locked arms and cooed at each other between admiring queries. “My boyfriend says,” Swift said in asides when Kelce laid things on too thick.
“The Kelce brothers have become the Barbara Walters of their generation,” said Nick Cicero, founder of Mondo Metrics, which studies the podcast industry.
Fans ate it up. “I think it’s really nice and refreshing, especially for a woman whose primary fan base is young women, to see somebody that is so celebratory of their partner and also not self-deprecating in a bad way, but also really admires what they do, and they don’t try to minimize that,” one fan, Britton Copeland, who goes by Britton Rae on TikTok, said in a Zoom interview.
Swift interpreters immediately began online discussions about What It All Means. One fan discussed theories about the still-unheard song, “The Fate of Ophelia,” listed as the new album’s first cut. Others pointed out that the album release date of Oct. 3 coincided with National Plaid Day — apparently a Swift obsession — and National Boyfriend’s Day.
Such Easter eggs are likely to bring listeners back to the “New Heights” interview again and again, meaning it could eventually stand as the most listened-to podcast episode on YouTube ever. “It’s got a chance,” Cicero said.
Podcasts emerged in the 2000s as an audio-only programming format tied to Apple’s now-defunct iPod. The New Oxford American Dictionary called “podcast” its word of the year in 2005, even as many in the industry sought an alternative name almost as soon as it was coined.
The well-regarded “Serial” podcasts helped bring the format into the mainstream a decade ago. Particularly since the pandemic, and with the explosive growth of YouTube and personalities like Joe Rogan, video podcasts have become far more popular. Like most interview podcasts, “New Heights” can also be enjoyed in an audio format — and it’s background noise even for many who air it on YouTube — but being able to see Swift and the Kelces interact has its benefits.
Will Swift outdraw President Trump’s appearance with Rogan?
Rogan’s interview with President Donald Trump was a key moment in the 2024 presidential campaign, and has been seen 59 million times on YouTube in nine months. Certainly Swifties — and possibly Trump himself — will be eager to see if the “New Heights” interview exceeds that number. Swift is among the celebrities who has drawn the president’s ire.
It has further to go to be a record-setter, though. The most-watched podcast episode ever on YouTube, and likely the most-consumed podcast ever, is Abdulrahman Abu Maleh’s interview with relationship coach Yasser Hazimi for “Secrets to Thriving Relationships” from the Saudi Arabian company Thmanyah. It has racked up 144 million views in two years.
Swift’s and the Kelces’ teams were was particularly skillful in creating a huge demand for the interview with how its spread clips across various social media platforms, said Tom Webster, founder of Sounds Profitable, a firm that analyzes the podcast industry. By Thursday morning, Instagram highlights alone from the interview were viewed more than 350 million times, Cicero said.
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Associated Press journalist Alicia Rancilio contributed to this report from Detroit.
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David Bauder writes about the intersection of media and entertainment for the AP. Follow him at http://x.com/dbauder and https://bsky.app/profile/dbauder.bsky.social.
